How to handle timing files for verses numbers already split

jeff_heath · June 10, 2020, 11:01am

I have a SAB audio synchronization project where there is already a split verse in the text, i.e.:

\c 8

\nb \v 1a Wo Sool onamaŋ soo ti ɗoŋ îide Etiyeŋ me.

\s Sool ti ɗoŋ ogiyso ti suma kʼIsa

\p \v 1b A onniyo gettiyo batum ɗuwo an diʼn iise dabirsa ɓaadaŋ ki ɗoŋ ogiyso ti suma kʼIsa a Zeruzalem. Kane pay geŋ an di-tiipe kʼadda siiɗo Ziide ti Samari, a Zeruzalem i dʼuupe ɗoŋ zina kʼIsa siidaŋ. 
\v 2 Ɗoŋ i seeɗu

SAB/Aeneas divided the verses like this:

1a|Wo Sool onamang soo ti
s1|Sool ti dong ogiyso ti
1b=a|A onniyo gettiyo batum
1b=b|Kane pay geng an di-ti

This didn’t seem to work, so I tried re numbering the phrases file like this:

1a|Wo Sool onamang soo ti
s1|Sool ti dong ogiyso ti
1b|A onniyo gettiyo batum
1c|Kane pay geng an di-ti

I can fine-tune the timings then, but when built into the app, the verse labeled as 1c doesn’t get highlighted (I guess since 1a and 1b exist, but 1c doesn’t). I tried putting the phrase and timings verse numbers back the way they were, but then none of the 1a, 1b verses are highlighted in the app.

What’s the right way to do this?

jeff_heath · June 24, 2020, 10:58am

Ping… This is pretty much the last change that I need to make on this app, so can someone help me resolve this?

Corey_Garrett · June 24, 2020, 12:59pm

Jeff, sorry this is giving you trouble - send me that sfm file and your mp3 for that chapter and let me have a go at it.

jeff_heath · June 24, 2020, 3:40pm

(Thanks Corey for looking at that…)
A similar issue:

\v 5 A ume geŋ munɗa kʼarmika soo toŋ yi kʼiine yi kʼize ye, wo yʼan di ziipe miŋ beezí a ɗoŋ kʼeeni miibi ɗaŋŋal, an dʼuune bee.
\v 6 Wo Isa yi nuukiso eedí kono kane an ki ziipe addaŋ a yode ye.
\s Agisa ki sanalliyagi kane koomat makumu sire
\r (Matiye 9.35; 10.1,5-14; Lik 9.1-6)
\p Saŋ maŋ Isa yʼan izire pay illiyagi ɗoŋ i-ɗuule Nazaret geŋ me.
\v 7 Maŋ yʼa-wiike \w sanalliyagi\w* kane koomat makumu sire, yʼan ikkipe sire sire, wo yʼan dʼele toogo ki lommite siitanɗani ɗoŋ an tʼooney a ɗaanadaŋ,

Verse 6 has an \s in the middle of it. In both the fine-tuning, and in the final app, the entire verse 6 is highlighted both while the first part is being read (then the highlighting of all of v6 is turned off for the reading of the section heading, which is highlighted) and while the second part of v6 is read.

So verse 6 is being properly highlighted while it is being read, but it’s just a bit weird to have both the parts before and after the \s highlighted at the same time. The current behavior is certainly acceptable, but if you have a suggestion how the verse could be split, I would be open to that. (Could I manually introduce 6a, 6b? If so, would I manuallyl change the SFM text file and/or the phrase file?)

Corey_Garrett · June 24, 2020, 3:55pm

I am not that good with giving the general rule, I usually just hammer at the exceptions until they do what I want them to! Send me this as well and I’ll take a look - although from just the text it looks hairy.

jeff_heath · June 25, 2020, 4:23pm

Thanks to @Corey_Garrett for his help tracking down these problems. The first problem (the most important for me to fix) was solved apparently simply by upgrading from SAB 7.0.2 to 7.1. I had somehow forgotten to install that update. I didn’t really see anything in the release notes that directly applies, but I’m just happy that it’s working now.

The second problem can be solved by actually changing the text (if you are willing to do that) so that the two parts of the verse are labelled a & b:

\v 6a Wo Isa yi nuukiso eedí kono kane an ki ziipe addaŋ a yode ye.
\s Agisa ki sanalliyagi kane koomat makumu sire
\r (Matiye 9.35; 10.1,5-14; Lik 9.1-6)
\p
\v 6b Saŋ maŋ Isa yʼan izire pay illiyagi ɗoŋ i-ɗuule Nazaret geŋ me.

Note that the addition of the second half verse number should be on the next line, on a separate line from the \p paragraph marker. If you are working with the translation team and they are willing to make those changes directly in the text, that probably would be best. In my case, the text has already been published and sent to the DBL, so I’m just making those changes in the text locally in SAB. (Kind of dangerous, since any future updates to the text would probably wipe out those manual changes…)

Just a note: There was also a point at which the apps were working fine for Corey (with proper text highlighting), but not for me. It turns out that I was always just updating the app, using the automatic install and run app from SAB (which is genius!), but there must have been something that wasn’t getting updated with that update process, and there was still this highlighting problem. When I uninstalled the app and then installed it from scratch, it started working. I don’t know what that was about, but I mention it here in case it helps someone else down the line.

jeff_heath · June 26, 2020, 8:01am

Some additional information here… You do not need to add the verse number a & b designations in the actual Paratext SFM file. You can just add them in the phrases file. So this is an example of what I see in a phrases file:

3|Kane an un isa ingkino kono nung ti Meega an ay kiʼn zuune ye.
4|Wo de suldi geng nʼun tiʼn ruute kono aame onniyo tʼiina mang, kun dʼelka a ono dong nʼun ruute.
s1|Naabo kʼUnde Kamilen̰
4|Nung nʼun ki ruute tʼume kʼeesiyo yeʼng kono nung ti kune.
5a|Angkeng ni-kime kʼume wede i nʼigibo, wo ti diinagung wede a ni tonde umbo, yʼa tʼeese:

@richard There seems to be a bug in creating the phrase file, (hypothesis) that if the section before the \s does not get broken up, then SAB doesn’t use the a & b notation, even if the verse continues after the \s. If the portion of the verse before the \s does get broken up, then it seems to work fine, as in this example:

38a|Mang Pilat yʼa tunde Isa, yʼede:
38b|Wo derec, i-kaza moo me?
s7|Pilat ti deero Yawudiyagi
38c|Aame Pilat yʼa ti ruute ingkino mang yʼa tʼiiziga, yʼa tʼudde kʼume Yawudiyagi sey.
38d|Yʼiideʼng yʼan di ruute, yʼede:
38e|Nung me, a tukki wede eng munda ulsu ni kʼuune ye.

So for now, in those cases, I am manually inserting a & b after the verse number in the phrases. In the example above it becomes:

4a|Wo de suldi geng nʼun tiʼn ruute kono aame onniyo tʼiina mang, kun dʼelka a ono dong nʼun ruute.
s1|Naabo kʼUnde Kamilen̰
4b|Nung nʼun ki ruute tʼume kʼeesiyo yeʼng kono nung ti kune.

And I adjust the timing file as well, to add a & b on those verse numbers.

Hopefully that’s clear but feel free to ask if it isn’t.

Andy_Weathers · July 27, 2020, 12:33pm

Hi Jeff,
I had a similar issue with how the highlighting works in the finetuning the timing file (using the HTML) on verses where verse #a is before an s1 title and #b is after the title. In my case it just made it difficult to finetune the timing, but once I exported the app it actually correctly highlighted the 4a, then s1 then 4b - each at the correct time.
I flagged the HTML highlight issue when I suggested some improvements and keyboard shortcuts to the finetune HTML file. I think the latest update SAB 7.2 from early July 2020 has this fixed now.
Side note, in my latest iteration of an app I’m working on the app doesn’t highlight and scroll automatically as the audio plays. But in SAB I’ve got the box checked that says “Highlight the current phrase when playing audio” (under Audio Settings tab). Do you have any ideas about what I might have wrong? An earlier version of the app actually highlighted correctly. I can’t tell yet if this is an issue with SAB 7.2, which I recently installed. @richard have you had any other issues with highlighting in SAB 7.2 ?

CraigN · April 30, 2021, 9:23am

I had a similar issue, I had a verse, 1 Sam 4:1, with just a few words in v1 before a heading, then the rest of the verse. When playing it highlighted the verse before and after the heading when playing the first few words, then just the heading while it read that, and then it highlighted nothing while reading out the rest of the verse.
Using suggestions above I edited both the phrases and timings files, adding ‘a’ to the first section, and of course changing ‘a’ to ‘b’ and ‘b’ to ‘c’. This has fixed the problem. I don’t know how many other verses are split by a heading though…

Before:
1|itr peyamy samwئێl be hemww israil geyʂt.
s1|felestyyeکan snدwqy χwدa دeben
1a|israilyʂ bo berengarbwwnewey felestyyeکan bo ʂer چwwne دerewe w lelay berدy yarmety ئorدwgayan دamezranد،
1b|felestyyeکanyʂ lelay ئefێq.
2a|ind̠ʒa felestyyeکan bereyan best bo berengarbwwnewey israil w ʂer heʟ̥gyrsa،

6.54 10.66 1
10.66 14.66 s1
14.66 24.6 1a
24.6 26.62 1b
26.62 32.38 2a

After:
1a|itr peyamy samwئێl be hemww israil geyʂt.
s1|felestyyeکan snدwqy χwدa دeben
1b|israilyʂ bo berengarbwwnewey felestyyeکan bo ʂer چwwne دerewe w lelay berدy yarmety ئorدwgayan دamezranد،
1c|felestyyeکanyʂ lelay ئefێq.
2a|ind̠ʒa felestyyeکan bereyan best bo berengarbwwnewey israil w ʂer heʟ̥gyrsa،

6.54 10.66 1a
10.66 14.66 s1
14.66 24.6 1b
24.6 26.62 1c
26.62 32.38 2a

CraigN · May 10, 2021, 10:56am

I have encountered an even stranger hiccup in the timing files.
2 Kings 24:20
The part of the verse after heading should be ‘20c’ but is just ‘20’:

218.62 223.18 20a
223.18 227.02 20b
227.02 229.64 s3
229.64 236.28 20

When playing, it does 20a, 20b, and s3 as it should but for 20c the highlight jumps back to 20a. I have fixed this by going into the txt files again and adding the ‘c’.
Should this be noted as a bug?

Andy_Weathers · May 15, 2021, 11:18pm

@jeff_heath when you are suggesting to edit the phrases file, are you referring to the *aeneas.txt files that are located in \App Builder\Scripture Apps\Phrases\com.appname folder?

@richard if this is a common need it might be nice if users could easily edit these *aeneas.txt phrases files directly in SAB. For example under Books, Source it’s easy to view (but not edit) the text as in Paratext, but I’m also finding that some adjustments have to be made for the timing files to work correctly any time a section header splits a verse.

Here is my example today from a section header that falls mid verse in Genesis 26:14:

\v 14 Ɩwɛná fééni, namɩ́nɩ, na náánɩ ɖabata. Bɩka ɩwɛná yomáa ɖabata.
\s1 Ɩsaáka weeɖi keɖiyá ɩ́na wúro Abɩmelɛ́ɛkɩ
\p Ńna gɛ Filisitíi ńba waalɩzɩ́ ɩzɩ́rɛ batɩ́nɩ ɩrɔ.
\v 15 Ɩjaa Ibrahím...

Then in the *aeneas.txt phrase file that becomes:

14a|Ɩwená fééni,
14b|namíni,
14c|na nááni ɖabata.
14d|Bika iwená yomáa ɖabata.
s2|Ɩsaáka weeɖi keɖiyá ína wúro Abimeléeki
14|Ńna ge Filisitíi ńba waalizí izíre batíni iro.
15a|Ɩjaa Ibrahím...

And when using the fine tune timings, in the HTML file it looks like this:

So you can see that after the section header it lumps the whole verse 14, in the HTML file, probably because the *aeneas.txt file didn’t have the letter 14e to mark the last phrase as separate after the \s1 section header.

As described earlier in this thread, the solution is to edit the *aeneas.txt file, adding the letter e in this line:
14e|Ńna ge Filisitíi ńba waalizí izíre batíni iro.
The other alternative, is to tell the team doing the fine tuning to simply ignore the repeated parts of the verse, and focus only on the last phrase. But obviously this is not as easy when there may be several separate phrases in the part of the verse that fall after the section header that splits the verse.

Andy_Weathers · May 15, 2021, 11:41pm

@jeff_heath when you suggest to edit directly in the Paratext SFM file (so that users don’t have to redo the *aeneas.txt files for each new edition of the app) how would you recommend the change should be entered in the SFM file?
Your example above seems to place letters directly in the SFM, in parts a and b in verse 6:

\v 6a Wo Isa yi nuukiso eedí kono kane an ki ziipe addaŋ a yode ye.
\s Agisa ki sanalliyagi kane koomat makumu sire
\r (Matiye 9.35; 10.1,5-14; Lik 9.1-6)
\p
\v 6b Saŋ maŋ Isa yʼan izire pay illiyagi ɗoŋ i-ɗuule Nazaret geŋ me.

But will that effect the verse numbers in any printed editions?

My other question is what you said above about needing to uninstall and reinstall the latest version of SAB to make . I simply downloaded the latest (version 8.6.5 currently) and ran the file to update SAB. But I think I hear you saying that for some updates it’s best to uninstall the old SAB then reinstall the new SAB. I hope this procedure would keep my project files and all the links to the various SFM, MP3 and all the other files - is that the case?
It would be nice if there was a more simple update option within SAB, for example if under Help, About, there could be a check for updates option that would more efficiently update SAB, without having to uninstall to reinstall. Above you mentioned using the automatic install and run app from SAB but I don’t see that on the SAB menus.

jeff_heath · May 16, 2021, 1:03pm

I went back and looked at the final version of that project, and it looks like the SFM file was NOT modified; it still uses the standard SFM file in the Paratext project folder. It was only the timings file that had to be modified. So after the Aeneas sync, I believe I changed the verse markers to 6a and 6b (before and after the section heading, respectively). (Note that I think I had to add the “a” and “b” in the Phrases file and also in the Timings file.)

But IF I found that I needed to change the SFM file, I would make a local copy of it, and make the modifications there, rather than mess around with SFM text in Paratext (which would affect all other Scripture products…). I assume at some point in time this error will get fixed as well, in which case we won’t need to do these gymnastics…

jeff_heath · May 16, 2021, 1:10pm

If for some reason you might need to uninstall and reinstall SAB, all of your data should be there. If for some reason a project is not in the project list, you should be able to open it from your Documents\App Builder folder.

Andy_Weathers · May 16, 2021, 2:08pm

Thanks Jeff, I was wondering why the HTML for fine tuning the timings was still not displaying correctly after making corrections to the phrases file. Since I wasn’t running aeneas again, I just needed to edit the timings file too, here is after editing:

Start	Finish	Phrase
192.4	196.54	14d
196.54	202.94	s2
202.94	207.01	14e
207.01	213.24	15a

In this case (example from Gen 26:14), the phrase after s2 simply had the line listed as “14” but when I changed that to 14e then I had hoped it would produce correctly to fine tune the timings. However, this is what I got in the HTML:

So I’m not sure why the phrase for 14e showed up as blank, in the phrase file verse 14e is listed like this:

14c|na nááni ɖabata.
14d|Bika iwená yomáa ɖabata.
s2|Ɩsaáka weeɖi keɖiyá ína wúro Abimeléeki
14e|Ńna ge Filisitíi ńba waalizí izíre batíni iro.
15a|Ɩjaa Ibrahím…

Ok, I won’t try again until I’ve attempted what you recommended in the first place, to completely uninstall then reinstall SAB. I had already yesterday just installed the newest version of SAB, but hopefully this will make everything work again.

Andy_Weathers · May 16, 2021, 3:02pm

I’ve now uninstalled and reinstalled SAB 8.6.5 and still got the same problem. Yes, all my projects opened up just like I had them before, presumably because it looked for my projects under Documents\App Builder\Scripture Apps.

My verse 14e is still showing up as blank in the HTML for Fine Tune Timings.
The *timing.txt contains 14e:

192.4 196.54 14d

196.54 202.94 s2

202.94 207.01 14e

and the *aeneas.txt phrase file also designates 14e as follows:

14d|Bika iwená yomáa ɖabata.
s2|Ɩsaáka weeɖi keɖiyá ína wúro Abimeléeki
14e|Ńna ge Filisitíi ńba waalizí izíre batíni iro.

So that doesn’t explain why the HTML file lists the verse 14e as blank.
Isn’t the HTML file created with input form the phrase file, in conjunction with the timing file, and then also played with the MP3 or audio file?

jeff_heath · May 16, 2021, 3:37pm

The blank HTML in Fine Tune Timings isn’t the important thing. The important thing is what you get in the app when you build it. When you build it, does it select the proper portions of the verse at the right times while the audio is playing? If so, then you are good to go! You can post a bug report about the blank text in Fine Tune Timings, if you like, but if it’s producing the desired result, that’s what’s most important.

Andy_Weathers · May 17, 2021, 8:18am

Hi Jeff, I haven’t built the app yet since I’m wanting to get all of Genesis and the NT together in one app. But I’ve found the Viewer option helpful, under Books\Main Collection\Book Name. When I click on the Viewer tab then I see a window where I can click on a specific verse, and the synchronized highlighting and audio plays to display what it should look like in the app:

So yes, the highlighting did work correctly for all the parts of verse 14, both before the section header, on the section header and the last phrase part after the header as well. Thanks!
When we’re still looking at thousands more apps to make in other languages, my comments are just to improve the working experience for those who come after us.

CraigN · May 17, 2021, 11:48am

I encountered a similar problem the other day. It is not related to headings but I think I’ll still mention it here rather than starting a new thread.
The highlighting fails to move on to the last part of a verse but instead stays on an end quote and an asterisk. The end quote is a decorative bracket used for OT quotations in the NT, asterisk is for a footnote. You can see the three lines in the screenshot, it highlights16a and 16b as it should but the highlights stays where you see it while the audio plays 16c.

I suspect it is the footnote causing the problem and not the bracket.
The timing file appears as one would expect:
|179.24|182.54|16a|
|182.54|184.3|16b|
|184.3|188.92|16c|
The phrases file does also:
16a|[ka biri iezdani zani،
16b|ka fari dekat؟]
16c|belam ame biri mesiحman heie.
What might be the problem, and the solution for that matter?
I noticed this while doing a screen recording to share as a video, for the purposes of that video, one labourious solution would be to make a copy of the .sfm file, remove the footnote and try again but of course we want the footnote in the app.

Andy_Weathers · May 18, 2021, 7:53am

I’m just thinking out loud as there are probably others that can better reply to your concerns. Does the SFM file have a \p marker before 16c starts? Above in the thread (#6) @jeff_heath seamed to indicate that you might be able to resolve this by manually adding in the 16a, 16b, 16c in your SFM and the paragraph marker might be required: